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Ukraine is an EU candidate

by IdiotSavant Fri Jun 24th, 2022 at 01:15:29 AM EST

Ukraine is now officially an EU candidate:

European leaders have granted Ukraine candidate status, in a historic decision that opens the door to EU membership for the war-torn country and deals a blow to Vladimir Putin.

EU leaders meeting in Brussels approved Ukraine's candidate status on Thursday night, nearly four months after the country's president, Volodymyr Zelenskiy, launched his country's bid to join the bloc in the early days of the Russian invasion. Moldova was also given candidate status.

Zelenskiy immediately welcomed the move, calling it "a unique and historic moment" in relations with the 27-nation bloc. "Ukraine's future is in the EU," he tweeted.



They obviously have some way to go before full EU membership - not least in kicking out the Russian invaders. But they've made their willingness to comply with European laws and norms clear, and that they'll make whatever changes they need to to get there. Because the whole reason for this conflict is Ukraine's desire to be a normal European democracy, rather than a Russian colony.

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Largely symbolic, looking at the timeline EU candidacy of Türkiye. Most important the beginning is officially here and many advantages will be gained through cooperation with Brussels ... a process already started as was for NATO integration.

'Sapere aude'
by Oui (Oui) on Fri Jun 24th, 2022 at 05:32:13 AM EST
The problems with Turkey's candidacy are multiple and bilateral : racism/islamophobia on the part of certain EU governments ("these people aren't Europeans"); and then Erdogan's voluntary divergence from the convergence criteria, which rendered the candidacy moot, until such time as Turkish electors decide otherwise.

Ukraine doesn't have either of those obstacles; they are pretty much universally seen as European by other Europeans; and current and future Ukrainian governments will be pretty determined in meeting the criteria (that is, in becoming better-aligned with EU practices and values than Poland, Hungary, Bulgaria etc).

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Jun 27th, 2022 at 04:28:07 PM EST
[ Parent ]
They obviously have some way to go before full EU membership - not least in kicking out the Russian invaders.

That seems at present time unlikely to happen. The Ukrainian defense of the Lysychansk-Severodonetsk area - which both Neo-conservative Institute for study of war and pro-Russian Southfront seems to agree is the main battle front - looks like it will collapse any day.

They also agree that the Zolote pocket has been encircled, and that all main roads to Lysychansk are under control of the Russian and seperatist side. So the Ukrainian troops there can't be re-supplied or even retreat in good order.

(I use Institute for study of war and Southfront because though they are ideologically driven they present their reasons and they both present maps of their conclusions. Since they are ideologically opposed, that which they agree on should be close enough to the truth.)

This is consistent with the large picture assessment expressed succinctly by General Stephen M. Twitty, Former Deputy Commander, United States European Command, at a Council of Foreign Relations panel discussion a few weeks ago on teh topic of Russia's War in Ukraine: How Does it End?

TWITTY: Well, as I take a look at this, you know, Secretary Austin came out that we're going to weaken Russia. We have not really defined what weaken means, because if you take a look at the Ukrainians right now, I take a strong belief in Colin Powell's doctrine--you overwhelm a particular enemy with force. And right now, when you take a look at Ukraine and you take a look at Russia, they're about one to one. The only difference is Russia has a heck of a lot of combat power than the Ukrainians.

And so there's no way that the Ukrainians will ever destroy or defeat the Russians, and so we got to really figure out what does weaken mean in the end state here. And I will also tell you, Richard, there's no way that the Ukrainians will ever have enough combat power to kick the Russians out of Ukraine as well, and so what does that look like in the end game.

(My bold)

So if Ukraine will never destroy or defeat the Russians, and having settled borders is a pre-condition to join the EU, where does it leave us?

Will EU promote and accept a peace negotiation even if it means Ukraine giving up territory? Or will principles be jettisoned and a revanschistic Ukraine and its ongoing conflict be accepted into the EU?

by fjallstrom on Sat Jun 25th, 2022 at 08:43:38 PM EST
EU member nations need to have settled borders (the still-unsettled[?] border dispute between Croatia and Slovenia notwithstanding; their adhesion in those conditions represents an uncomfortable precedent).

However, Ukraine's borders are not under dispute; certain parts of its internationally-recognised territory are under occupation (the same is true of fellow candidate Moldavia). That is an entirely different proposition.

Yes, one imagines that there will be a border revision after some far-off international conference. This will need to take place before Ukraine can actually join the EU; it's not reasonable to make it a precondition to candidature.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Jun 27th, 2022 at 04:21:53 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Cyprus?
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Mon Jun 27th, 2022 at 05:34:44 PM EST
[ Parent ]
European Union-Northern Cyprus relations
Cyprus' Treaty of Accession 2003 included Protocol No 10 on Cyprus (OJ L 236, 23.09.2003, p. 955), Art. 1.1 of which states: "The application of the acquis shall be suspended in those areas of the Republic of Cyprus in which the Government of the Republic of Cyprus does not exercise effective control."

As of 2018, the EU recognises the north as being outside the control of the Greek Cypriot-led government of the Republic and hence is temporarily exempt from EU legislation. The euro also does not officially circulate in the north (although it does have widespread usage) and the Schengen agreement is not in effect in Cyprus due to complications in security at the external border to the north. The free movement of goods, capital, services and people is also not in effect. Turkish Cypriots are considered citizens of the European Union as the EU considers them Cypriot citizens, merely living in a part of Cyprus outside of the control of the Republic of Cyprus.

However, seats in the European Parliament are allocated based on the population of both north and south Cyprus together. Turkish Cypriots that hold citizenship of the Republic of Cyprus are allowed to vote and be candidates.

by Bernard (bernard) on Mon Jun 27th, 2022 at 08:45:20 PM EST
[ Parent ]
What about Akrotiri and Dhekelia? Now that they are not in the EU.
by gk (gk (gk quattro due due sette @gmail.com)) on Tue Jun 28th, 2022 at 12:46:50 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Drive them into the sea. Obviously.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Tue Jun 28th, 2022 at 02:14:14 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Optionally, send them to Rwanda.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II
by eurogreen on Tue Jun 28th, 2022 at 02:57:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I'm also not entirely on board with your assessment of Ukraine's inability to regain territory.

The unequal artillery battle is the main obstacle, because in other respects they seem to be frankly better than the Russians. It's tiresome to hear Zelenskiy endlessly repeating "we need more long-range artillery", but it's the military reality.

And as they are currently running out of Soviet era ordnance for the artillery they have (this will eventually become a problem for the Russians too, given the volume they are sending over), things could evolve quite quickly either way.

Overall, the Russians are so desperate to capture the last square centimetres of Luhansk oblast that the Ukrainians are able to make small gains elsewhere. And it's clear that they are never going to achieve their Novorossiya project (of which Odessa is an important part) unless there is a major game changer.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue Jun 28th, 2022 at 10:38:03 AM EST
[ Parent ]
BBC | Catal[onia][unya]: Did voters face worst police violence ever seen in the EU?, 17 Oct 2017
It is true that fake photos have been used but virtually all of the media coverage showing police violence was real - including all of that shown by the BBC. Photos which are six years old have been shared online purporting to show violence in Catalonia on 1 October. For example, this photo was shared in a manner that suggested a disabled Catalan voter was being hit with a baton. The BBC is not responsible for the content of external sites.

archived
More Spanish repression, 2020
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Spain is not a democracy, 2019
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The EU is dead, 2018

by Cat on Mon Jun 27th, 2022 at 09:40:37 PM EST


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