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Chinese peace principles for the war in Ukraine

by fjallstrom Sat Feb 25th, 2023 at 08:09:21 PM EST

Few may have missed that China is trying to broker peace in Ukraine.

In similar fashion to how the US government presented its position after world war one in idealistic fashion in Wilson's 14 points China has released China's Position on the Political Settlement of the Ukraine Crisis.

They are clearly written and while trying to apply principles on geopolitics may be a fool's errand, I think it is both interesting that they try and any attempt by a major power to broker peace must be welcomed at this point.

The application of the principles isn't as clear. Below the fold I will quote the principle's and my interpretation of how a peace based on them would look.

At last, a ray of light, Frontpaged - Frank Schnittger

1. Respecting the sovereignty of all countries. Universally recognized international law, including the purposes and principles of the United Nations Charter, must be strictly observed. The sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity of all countries must be effectively upheld. All countries, big or small, strong or weak, rich or poor, are equal members of the international community. All parties should jointly uphold the basic norms governing international relations and defend international fairness and justice. Equal and uniform application of international law should be promoted, while double standards must be rejected. 

1. No border change by force. Return to Ukraine's pre-war border.

2. Abandoning the Cold War mentality. The security of a country should not be pursued at the expense of others. The security of a region should not be achieved by strengthening or expanding military blocs. The legitimate security interests and concerns of all countries must be taken seriously and addressed properly. There is no simple solution to a complex issue. All parties should, following the vision of common, comprehensive, cooperative and sustainable security and bearing in mind the long-term peace and stability of the world, help forge a balanced, effective and sustainable European security architecture. All parties should oppose the pursuit of one's own security at the cost of others' security, prevent bloc confrontation, and work together for peace and stability on the Eurasian Continent.

2. No NATO expansion in Ukraine. New security architecture for Europe.

3. Ceasing hostilities. Conflict and war benefit no one. All parties must stay rational and exercise restraint, avoid fanning the flames and aggravating tensions, and prevent the crisis from deteriorating further or even spiraling out of control. All parties should support Russia and Ukraine in working in the same direction and resuming direct dialogue as quickly as possible, so as to gradually deescalate the situation and ultimately reach a comprehensive ceasefire. 

3. Seize fire along the current line of contact.

4. Resuming peace talks. Dialogue and negotiation are the only viable solution to the Ukraine crisis. All efforts conducive to the peaceful settlement of the crisis must be encouraged and supported. The international community should stay committed to the right approach of promoting talks for peace, help parties to the conflict open the door to a political settlement as soon as possible, and create conditions and platforms for the resumption of negotiation. China will continue to play a constructive role in this regard. 

4. Then peace negotiations. China offers its services as peace broker.

5. Resolving the humanitarian crisis. All measures conducive to easing the humanitarian crisis must be encouraged and supported. Humanitarian operations should follow the principles of neutrality and impartiality, and humanitarian issues should not be politicized. The safety of civilians must be effectively protected, and humanitarian corridors should be set up for the evacuation of civilians from conflict zones. Efforts are needed to increase humanitarian assistance to relevant areas, improve humanitarian conditions, and provide rapid, safe and unimpeded humanitarian access, with a view to preventing a humanitarian crisis on a larger scale. The UN should be supported in playing a coordinating role in channeling humanitarian aid to conflict zones.

5. UN humanitarian aid, which also means UN observers.

6. Protecting civilians and prisoners of war (POWs). Parties to the conflict should strictly abide by international humanitarian law, avoid attacking civilians or civilian facilities, protect women, children and other victims of the conflict, and respect the basic rights of POWs. China supports the exchange of POWs between Russia and Ukraine, and calls on all parties to create more favorable conditions for this purpose.

6. Exchange of prisoners.

7. Keeping nuclear power plants safe. China opposes armed attacks against nuclear power plants or other peaceful nuclear facilities, and calls on all parties to comply with international law including the Convention on Nuclear Safety (CNS) and resolutely avoid man-made nuclear accidents. China supports the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) in playing a constructive role in promoting the safety and security of peaceful nuclear facilities.

7. IAEA inspections to control nuclear plants.

8. Reducing strategic risks. Nuclear weapons must not be used and nuclear wars must not be fought. The threat or use of nuclear weapons should be opposed. Nuclear proliferation must be prevented and nuclear crisis avoided. China opposes the research, development and use of chemical and biological weapons by any country under any circumstances.

8. New negatiations to decrease the risks of weapons of mass destruction. (New treaties with US, Russia and China this time?)

9. Facilitating grain exports. All parties need to implement the Black Sea Grain Initiative signed by Russia, Türkiye, Ukraine and the UN fully and effectively in a balanced manner, and support the UN in playing an important role in this regard. The cooperation initiative on global food security proposed by China provides a feasible solution to the global food crisis.

9. Getting grain exports up and running.

10. Stopping unilateral sanctions. Unilateral sanctions and maximum pressure cannot solve the issue; they only create new problems. China opposes unilateral sanctions unauthorized by the UN Security Council. Relevant countries should stop abusing unilateral sanctions and "long-arm jurisdiction" against other countries, so as to do their share in deescalating the Ukraine crisis and create conditions for developing countries to grow their economies and better the lives of their people.

10. Lift sanctions against Russia.

11. Keeping industrial and supply chains stable. All parties should earnestly maintain the existing world economic system and oppose using the world economy as a tool or weapon for political purposes. Joint efforts are needed to mitigate the spillovers of the crisis and prevent it from disrupting international cooperation in energy, finance, food trade and transportation and undermining the global economic recovery.

11. Preserving the current world economy with its industrial and supply chains.

12. Promoting post-conflict reconstruction. The international community needs to take measures to support post-conflict reconstruction in conflict zones. China stands ready to provide assistance and play a constructive role in this endeavor.

12. Re-building Ukraine. China offers its services.


Hm, they don't come in any particular order, I'll try to throw these in some buckets:

Peace negotiations

  1. Seize fire along the current line of contact.

  2. Then peace negotiations. China offers its services as peace broker.

  3. Exchange of prisoners.

  4. (a) No NATO expansion in Ukraine.

  5. No border change by force. Return to Ukraine's pre-war border.

Humanitarian relief for Ukraine, preventing nuclear disasters in Ukraine

  1. UN humanitarian aid, which also means UN observers.

  2. IAEA inspections to control nuclear plants.

Economic return to "normal"

  1. Getting grain exports up and running.

  2. Lift sanctions against Russia.

Future world order:

  1. (b) New security architecture for Europe.

  2. New negotiations to decrease the risks of weapons of mass destruction. (New nuclear arms treaties with US, Russia and China this time?)

  3. Preserving the current world economy with its industrial and supply chains.

  4. Re-building Ukraine. China offers its services.


I think it is a resonable starting point. Lots of details, including the order of items, can be hashed out in the peace negotiations.

Russia gets (2) a stop to Nato expansion, new security architechture for Europe, (10 & 11) a return to economic integration with EU, and new negotiations for global treaties on weapons of mass destruction with China as a partner.

Ukraine gets (1) return to Ukraine's pre-war border, (5) UN humanitarian aid, (12) re-building with China's help.

World (including China) gets (7) IAEA inspections to control nuclear plants, (9) grain exports up and running, (11) Preserving the current world economy with its industrial and supply chains.

I think a larger question is if the US is prepared for peace. The US as the global power would be diminshed if China brokers the peace.

Ukraine war: Zelensky wants Xi Jinping meeting following China's peace plan

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has said he plans to meet China's leader Xi Jinping to discuss Beijing's proposals on ending the war in Ukraine.

Speaking on the first anniversary of Russia's full-scale invasion, he said the proposal signalled that China was involved in the search for peace.


Meanwhile, Russia hailed the Chinese peace proposals. "We share Beijing's views," the foreign ministry in Moscow said in a statement.


Asked about the Chinese plan, US President Joe Biden told ABC News on Friday: "[Russian President Vladimir] Putin's applauding it, so how could it be any good?

"I've seen nothing in the plan that would indicate that there is something that would be beneficial to anyone other than Russia," he added.

China appears to be siding with Russia, though it would like to find a way of rescuing President Putin by arranging some kind of face-saving peace deal, says the BBC's World Affairs Editor John Simpson.

So much for previous claims from US that Ukraine decides when peace comes.

I promise you, Zelensk* isn't the least interested in a ceasefire, much less negotiated "peace". He was hand unilateral power by the US Treasury and POTUS' cabinet to declare victory. He's rejected and his diplomatic cadre have ridiculed temperant advisors far closer to Europe—PUTIN APOLOGISTS. And there are a few million more patriots to sacrifice to the cause, EU Accession. He's living his best life for dead "victims of communism" the world over.

To the extent he "wants Xi Jinping meeting", he's inviting yet another photo op, another melodramatic headline, an opportunity to burnish his fictitious world "statesman" ROLE cast by NATO handlers. Besides, Ukraine is "winning" PUTIN's UNPROVOKED BRUTAL WAR, isn't it. vdL's College of Commissioners agree, "The genie is out of the bottle". Ukraine's "directorate" is the free ride that he once famously dismissed.

Let's take another peek at Zelensk*'s uncompromising "security guarantee" strategy.
The Kyiv Security Compact International Guarantees for Ukraine: Recommendations, 13 Sep 2022
• 10-point speech by the President of Ukraine at the G20 Summit, 15 Nov 2023

Not one word of it entertains conflict resolution or a centilla of remorse. You are absolutely correct in adducing in Biden's reaction any "third-country," especially China, appeal to UN convention that the G7 rearguard is incapable of cooperation.  

by Cat on Sat Feb 25th, 2023 at 10:00:55 PM EST
24 Feb 2023
Reuters  Ukraine's Zelenskiy fights back tears for dead on war anniversary
...The president's office released a special address of nearly 15 minutes titled "The Year of Invincibility" for the anniversary....
NY Yella Cake | Tempered in a Crucible of Violence, Zelensky Rises to the Moment
...Some speeches wove in elaborate theses on geopolitics or were redolent with historical references to wartime leaders of the past, including Winston Churchill; others were simple, poignant reflections on the cost of war...
WaPoo | Oral history: Leaders recall dismay, fury on first day of war in Ukraine
PM Kaja Kallas (EE) 2x, Boris Johnson (UK) 6x, Sec. Jen Jens Stoltenberg (NATO) 2x, Sec. State Atony Blinken (US) 2x, UN Amb. Linda Thomas-Greenfield (US) 2x, JCS Gen. Mark Milley (US) 3x, Pres. V. Zelensk* (UA) 2x, MP David Arakhamia (UA) 2x, Nat'l. Security & Defense Sec. Oleksiy Danilov (2x), NSA Jake Sullivan (US) 2x, DOD Sec. Lloyd Austin (US) 3x, Pres. J. Biden (US) 2x, BND Dir. Bruno Kahl (DE) 2x, CIA Dir. Wm. Burns 2x, PM M. Morawiecki (PL) 2x, FM Dymtro Kuleba (UA), Mayor V. Klitschko (UA), Dep. Defense Min. Hanna Maliar (UA)

The Staff considered the production and supply of ammunition and weapons; even in such circumstances, we have the appropriate potential - address by the President of Ukraine

...Today I also met with a delegation of the global parliamentary network "United for Ukraine". These are representatives of 13 parliaments of European countries and the European Parliament. The topic of the meeting is quite clear: weapons for our warriors, sanctions against the terrorist state, and the implementation of our peace initiatives, including the Peace Formula....
Address by President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy "February. The year of invincibility"
...Ukraine has surprised the world. Ukraine has inspired the world. Ukraine has united the world. There are thousands of words to prove it, but a few will suffice. HIMARS, Patriot, Abrams, IRIS-T, Challenger, NASAMS, Leopard.

I thank all of our partners, allies[,] and friends who have stood side by side with us throughout the year. I am glad that the international anti-Putin coalition has grown so much that it requires a separate address. I will deliver it shortly. Definitely....

25 Feb 2023
We will make the Ukrainian Peace Formula the basis of a new security in Europe and the world - address of President of Ukraine to participants of International Forum in Kaunas, Lithuania
...The Ukrainian Peace Formula consists of ten points that provide just such guarantees. These are obviously necessary security points. This is the obviously necessary de-occupation of Ukraine. And this is obviously necessary justice for all those who suffered from Russian aggression....
by Cat on Sun Feb 26th, 2023 at 02:17:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Can someone grab him and ground him ... this guy is floating inflated by hot air from WH, 5 Corners, Boris of #10 and Munich homecoming festival. Living in a fantasy world drawn by Uncle Joe. Volodymyr should have stayed with acting for benefit of all Ukrainians. No one told him in a war there are real bullets, dead people, wounded and bloodshed. A war of choice for Joe as he has been part of for half a century US foreign policy. America as war profiteers. In war there are no heroes, just losers. You are no Churchill, nor MacArthur, Patton or Eisenhower. Out of self-interest you should have kept your campaign promise which swept the Servant of the People party to power: peace in the Donbas. You lost out to the Azov crazies who were part of the massacres on the Maidan and in Odessa. Loyalists to America.

Bringing to the Presidency his prestige as commanding
general of the victorious forces in Europe during World War II,
Dwight D. Eisenhower obtained a truce in Korea and worked incessantly
during his two terms (1953-1961) to ease the tensions of the Cold War.

Before he left office in January 1961, for his farm in Gettysburg, he urged the necessity of maintaining an adequate military strength, but cautioned that vast, long-continued military expenditures could breed potential dangers to our way of life. He concluded with a prayer for peace "in the goodness of time."

After the Suez crisis, the Eisenhower Doctrine was applied for an intervention by US Armed forces in the Middle East in 1958 at the request of Lebanon's President, Camille Chamoun ...

The world has changed and endured, but not America's role as policeman ... a specific request is unnecessary.

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Sun Feb 26th, 2023 at 03:24:29 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Well, BBC says he wants a meeting, I don't pretend to know what he wants.

I think reasons a Ukrainian president could be interested in China's proposal are:

  • The war is not going well for Ukraine, and presumably Zelensky knows that much. I am refering mostly to the Russian offensive at Bakhmut, but also the armament supplies form the west that seems to be decreasing or postponed to years into the future.
  • China is probably the only world power with influence over Russia. The first listed principle is "Respecting the sovereignty of all countries" which is also a principle important to China with respect to Taiwan. A Chinese brokered seize fire and peace is probably the best bet at a chance for a return to pre-war borders (with extensive home rule in the currently Russian occupied/annexed territories).
  • China is willing to help out with rebuilding Ukraine.

And against:
  • End to acceptance of dictatorial powers (opposition banned, media controlled). But that comes at the end of the wa, no matetr how it ends.
  • US clearly doesn't want it. This I think is the important one.

I think it is a positive step. If it becomes a photo-op, then so be it. Rather have a photo-op with people discussing peace, than another one with yet more weapons and escalation.
by fjallstrom on Sun Feb 26th, 2023 at 06:13:01 PM EST
[ Parent ]
what Politico.eu.com says. I gather, this "line" derives from one question asked at his 24 Feb press conference. It was recorded by Odessa Film Studio.

Vladimir Zelensky. Press conference February 24 (2023) News of Ukraine"(run time 02:19:02). I've paused at event 1/2 mark.

The dialogue is unintelligible. Reporters speak multiple languages, autotranslate produces garbage EN, Zelensk* rambles, adverts punctuate the stream, and the live translator intervenes to render reporters' questions into UA, leaving them inaudible.

This is autotranslate (absolutely necessary punctuation added).

Q @24:31: Good afternoon, Mr President. You already China was mentioned. China was mentioned a position which is obviously not quite pro-Ukrainian. This week China proposed his so-called peace plan and at the same we see certain actions of China in our favor in particular the UN General Assembly and there are also statements of Americn officials about what China can supply weapons to Russia. How do you evaluate this peace plan which suggested China and how do you generally evaluate the position of China? Can we change this position?
Zekensk*: I think, it is was a non-peaceful plan of China. I think that was not a resolution declaration. It is not infrastructure for something. I think that China showed my thoughts about this, and I have already said what I about it once that what China started talking about Ukraine, and I think that it is very good the question that follows the words. Yes, because we are with you in time of war. We must understand words. Words all say something, question in steps, and it is especially important what they are for, lead with lead, which result for us, first of all for us, because he [sic] speaks China talks about us there. What can I say? Territorial integrity coincides there. I believe that there is respect for territorial integrity. [It?] is not indicated there to which country but [sic] violated territorial integrity of our state. It talks about the nuclear safety of Meni [many?] seems very important. It coincides with interests of the world and our state. There are some points that are clear to me. They said some thoughts. There are thoughts with which I do not agree, the whole world seems to me does not agree. But nevertheless it is already something, and I think that it is correct to think that, if there are already thought there which somehow coincide with respect for international law to territorial integrity and some safety stuff, I think we should. This is a word in the normal sense use and [could? may?] let in this clause to work, why not? Our task [is?] to gather all to isloate one here. Our task with you.
comment: I suspect, the reporter speaks Russian, because the autotranslate is markedly fluent compared to Zelensk*'s UA speech (grammar, syntax). Nonetheless, AI cannot compensate for abject incoherent "thoughts". Second, this response is typical in length and substance, regardless of question. Third, the MSM reference omit recurring topics—besides weapons of invicibility—of significance to Zelensk*. After Ukraine's victory, that is reform of the UN Charter ("infrastucture") as well as ambivalent political relationships with UA expressed by African and Latin American nations which did not affirm the anniversay resolution, A/ES-11/L.7.

Perhaps you'll have a more satisfying experience with SE. Good luck.

by Cat on Sun Feb 26th, 2023 at 08:30:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Oui (Oui) on Sun Feb 26th, 2023 at 10:50:19 PM EST
[ Parent ]
@ 01:01:05

Translations don't write themselves, yo.

by Cat on Sun Feb 26th, 2023 at 11:13:42 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Watching it was easier then reading it.

I think "cautiosly positive" sums it up.

by fjallstrom on Fri Mar 3rd, 2023 at 10:00:54 AM EST
[ Parent ]

"Ukraine, Russia, China, and The West®" (EN) 02:45:20

moderated by Cecilie Hellestveit
< wipes tears >
autotranslate enabled

by Cat on Sun Feb 26th, 2023 at 11:31:10 PM EST
[ Parent ]
by Oui (Oui) on Tue Feb 28th, 2023 at 09:18:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
My jaw dropped when she dropped Lippmann (FDR's press secretary term I, II) into that insane WWII fantasy that she shares with Bildt.

She can't have picked that line out of a wikiwtf article or Public Opinion.

archived Thu Feb 23rd, 2023

by Cat on Tue Feb 28th, 2023 at 07:54:46 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Monetize Ukraine! Unlock muh value!

by Cat on Fri Mar 3rd, 2023 at 08:18:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]
The US would be upset if China brokered peace...

Personally I would be willing to accept the US being upset, if it results in peace.

And if Zelenskiy can engage in meaningful peace Chinese-brokered peace talks, that would demonstrate that he is not merely a puppet/proxy of the US.

The Ukrainians seem to believe that they can push the Russians back out of significant chunks of territory, if they can get enough panzers (and adequat ammunition for artillery). My intuition is that even if they engage a pease process now, they are going to try a big offensive in the spring/summer.
And the same is probably true of the Russians.
Because it's pretty clear that once there's a ceasefire, neither side is going to give back an inch of territory.

As to how well the war is going for the Ukrainians : The Russians have gained some ground with unsustainable tactics : human waves, reminiscent of Iran's approach in the Iraq war. But they are running out of convicts (soon, most will either be dead or will have finished their 6 month contract), and that approach will end up presenting political  difficulties if they continue it with conscripts.

Also, this war has demonstrated that military superiority (which the Russians have had throughout) is not enough to win a war. The Ukrainians have repeatedly demonstrated superior tactical and strategic ability.

But still, Zelenskiy has reasons to fear a weakening of support from the US and Europe, so he knows he will have to make peace eventually. A Republican president is unlikely to provide the same level of support...

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Mon Feb 27th, 2023 at 12:30:32 PM EST
[ Parent ]
EU officials demand 28 percent funding hike for President Charles Michel's office, 1 Mar
...The budget "related to the function of the President of the European Council" would rise from €2 million to €2.5 million in 2024, under the estimate of expenses and revenues [?!] for Michel's office. This increase is "mainly due to travel expenses in view of the continuing intense international activity following the war of aggression of Russia against Ukraine," the document said....
by Cat on Wed Mar 1st, 2023 at 06:40:26 PM EST
[ Parent ]

NBC | A view from Crimea, the Russian-annexed territory Ukraine is hoping to seize back, 28 Feb
A U.N. committee recently accused Russia of extrajudicial killings, abductions, politically motivated prosecutions, discrimination, and violence in Crimea. The targets of many of these human rights abuses, it said, were the Muslim ethnic minority Crimean Tatars, who have been oppressed over the years and who have often led the opposition to Russia's rule.

For a community like this one, speaking out can be frightening.
Keir Simmons is Chief International Correspondent for NBC News, based in London.

Natasha Lebedeva is NBC's Senior Director for International Affairs, based in Washington.

Tatyana Chistikova is an NBC News producer based in Moscow, Russia.

archived myrotvorets-center, FYI "scholarship"
by Cat on Thu Mar 2nd, 2023 at 02:17:35 AM EST
[ Parent ]
uh-huh most residents of Crimea are pro-russian.

And everyone knows that it's just fine to persecute minorities. Especially indigenous ones.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Thu Mar 2nd, 2023 at 11:51:49 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Zelenskiy adviser dismisses China's peace plan and warns time running out | The Guardian |

Mykhailo Podolyak, a senior adviser to Volodymyr Zelenskiy, has dismissed China's "unrealistic" proposal to end the conflict.

Beijing should not "bet on an aggressor who broke [international] law and will lose the war", Podolyak tweeted this morning.

'Sapere aude'
by Oui (Oui) on Sat Feb 25th, 2023 at 10:04:52 PM EST
Another Chinese Blue Sky balloon downed in a pre-emptive strike.

Western leaders give cool response to China's plan for Ukraine peace talks

Nato secretary general says Beijing 'does not have much credibility' because of failure to condemn Russia's invasion

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Sat Feb 25th, 2023 at 10:11:48 PM EST
[ Parent ]

My interpretation this would take all parties back to square one ... the timeline November-December 2021. The United States making the final arrangements of a blue print over a year old. Western states, NATO and the White House refused any substantial negotiations ... uncompromising ... willing to take final step of war with Russia. Zelensky was over a barrel after latest release of Pandora Papers and alleged money laundering.

Pretty much have elaborated the timeline of failure to maintain peace in Europe ... no players with interest in avoiding war with Russia.

As I stated 24-02-22 ... when the train leaves the station, no turning back once blood flows and revenge becomes the motivation.

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Sat Feb 25th, 2023 at 10:14:38 PM EST
[ Parent ]

'Sapere aude'
by Oui (Oui) on Sat Feb 25th, 2023 at 11:43:40 PM EST
[ Parent ]
whitehouse | Letter to Certain Congressional Committees on the Annual Report on the Legal and Policy Frameworks Guiding the United States' Use of Military Force and Related National Security Operations, 1 Mar
I am enclosing a copy of the unclassified report, as well as its classified annex.

                               JOSEPH R. BIDEN JR.

View the unclassified report here.

On November 15, 2022, President Biden submitted a notification in accordance with Section 1264(b) of the NDAA for FY 2018, as amended (50 U.S.C. §1549(b)), describing a change to the legal and policy frameworks for the United States' use of military force and related national security operations, which described the President's approval of a Presidential Policy Memorandum that establishes rigorous standards and procedures governing U.S. direct action against terrorist targets outside areas of active hostilities. The classified annex contains additional information.

The calendar-year report for 2021 reflected that the United States used military force in Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, and Somalia. As previously recognized, the United States used force in each of those countries in 2022 as well.

2001 Authorization for Use of Military Force
Foreign Forces, Irregular Forces, Groups, or Individuals for Which a Determination Has Been Made That Force Could Legally Be Used Under the Authorization for Use of Military Force, Pub. L. No. 107-40, 115 Stat. 224 (2001): No change.
Consistent with the international law framework described in the December 2016 Report on the Legal and Policy Frameworks Guiding the United States' Use of Military Force and Related National Security Operations, absent reliance on consent to use force in [INSERT TERRITORY], the United States has the inherent right to use necessary and proportionate force in self-defense to the extent that [INSERT TERRITORY] is unwilling or unable to confront effectively the threat to the United States emanating from the territory of [INSERT TERRITORY].

by Cat on Thu Mar 2nd, 2023 at 01:41:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
WSJ | NATO's Biggest European Members Float Defense Pact With Ukraine
punchline: French and German leaders told Ukrainian President Zelensk* that he needs to consider peace talks
The officials were careful to say that any decision on when and under what conditions any peace talks start is entirely up to Ukraine. Mr. Sunak on Friday said the West should give Ukraine arms that would give it a "decisive advantage" on the battlefield, including warplanes.
"We keep repeating that Russia mustn't win, but what does that mean? If the war goes on for long enough with this intensity, Ukraine's losses will become unbearable," a senior French official said. "And no one believes they will be able to retrieve Crimea."

Such talk contrasts sharply with public comments this week by President Biden and other Western leaders, who called for unity to counter what they termed Russian aggression. None mentioned the prospect of Kyiv opening talks with Moscow in the near future.

Children's Hour
Over dinner at the Élysée Palace, the sumptuous seat of the French presidency, Mr. Macron delivered a more sober message, the people said, telling Volodymir that even mortal enemies like France and Germany had to make peace after World War II.
Mr. Zelensk* said Friday that he had repeatedly urged world leaders to press Russian President Vladimir Putin for a meeting before the invasion, something that the Russian leader refused [FALSE]. The atrocities committed by Russia over the past year make such talks impossible, Mr. Zelensky said. "Now it is us who cannot do it," Mr. Zelensk* said. "There is nothing to talk about and nobody to talk about over there."
Gen. Petr Pavel [!], president-elect of [Czechia] and a former NATO commander, said at the Munich conference: "We may end up in a situation where liberating some parts of Ukrainian territory may deliver more loss of lives than will be bearable by society...There might be a point when Ukrainians can start thinking about another outcome."
by Cat on Sun Feb 26th, 2023 at 12:09:00 AM EST
Russia will `never compromise' on annexed Ukrainian regions, says Kremlin

The Kremlin's spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, has said that Russia is open to negotiations to end the conflict in Ukraine, but insisted Moscow will "never compromise" on what he described as new "territorial realities".

Speaking to reporters during a regular briefing, Peskov said Moscow will not renounce its claims to four Ukrainian regions that Vladimir Putin annexed in September.

Ukraine is still saying that they will negotiate only on the basis of not conceding any of its national territory. Stalemate.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue Feb 28th, 2023 at 11:50:50 AM EST
That is where a League of Nations solution would be useful. Both parties claims to rule these territories because the people wants it, right? So referendums (after settling how voter rolls are constructed, mutual withdrawal of troops, UN troops to secure order, etc). I would suggest instant run-off voting and including independence as an option (maybe the local population doesn't want to be ruled by either of these states battling it out?).

In general, finding solutions that can be workable for both sides is what you do at the negotiation table. Stating pre conditions on where the negotiations will end, can come in two variants:

  1. We will not accept a negotiated result that crosses these red lines, but we are willing to enter negotiations.
  2. We will not enter a negotiation before the other side has fullfilled these pre conditions about the end of the negotiations.

The first one is just negotiation tactics. It is up to the mediators to try to still find an acceptable outcome. It can for sure make it harder to get an agreement.

The second one is what you do if you don't want negotiations.

It is to me at this point unclear which kind the current positioning is. Or maybe I am just hoping that it is the first.

by fjallstrom on Fri Mar 3rd, 2023 at 09:58:26 AM EST
[ Parent ]
To me it's perfectly clear that neither side wants negotiations. Both are locked in to war mode.

For Ukrainians, it's a matter of survival of the nation (remember, Russia's first move was to attempt to take Kiev and decapitate the state). If Russia gains territory by conquest, what's to stop it happening again?

For Russia, it's that Putin can't afford to lose, having put his balls on the table.

While I welcome China's intervention, I can't really see it as anything other than PR : while I would hesitate to call Erdogan an "honest broker", Turkey was and still is a credible partner for peace negotiations; while China has been repudiated by Ukraine as an ally of Russia. When both sides are willing to negotiate, it will be by the existing Turkish channels.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue Mar 7th, 2023 at 11:17:57 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Ukrinform | No reconciliation possible with Russia over next 100 years - PM Shmyhal, 26 Feb
That's according to Prime Minister Denys Shmyhal, who spoke in an interview with Germany's Focus [kmu.gov.ua], Ukrinform reports.

"Reconciliation, cooperation - no, not in the next hundred years. Russia must first change, get democratized, demilitarized, and denuclearized," Shmyhal said.
"The only compromise [sic] is the complete withdrawal of Russian troops from Ukraine within the borders as of 1991. The Russians must stop shooting, cease aggression, and pull from our territory. I believe that changing the borders would be an unacceptable compromise for Europe as well," the Prime Minister said.
As Ukrinform reported, over the year of the war with Russia, Ukraine's Defense Forces inflicted significant losses on the aggressor power, eliminating more than 148,000 invaders.

Ukrinform | Ukraine advisor on Bejing's "peace plan": China yet not fully understands "Russia is gone", 27 Feb
Mykhailo Podolyak, an adviser to the head of the Ukrainian President's Office, believes that China, offering a "peace plan" for Ukraine where one point contradicts another, is actually siding with the Russian Federation, trading its reputation and not fully understanding that Russia is gone. That's according to Polodyak's comment voiced on Freedom TV [00:25:15 A/V].

"There is one important point in the Chinese plan - an immediate ceasefire. And this is the only effective point that exists in this plan. And this means that Russia will remain in the occupied territories, we will have a new demarcation line, and we will see a slow absorption of Ukraine. This there will not be a three-day blitzkrieg, but, let's say, a three-year destruction of Ukraine with the ever-growing influence of the Russian Federation... I believe that all peace plans that provide for an immediate ceasefire and preservation of the current territorial status quo are exclusively a game in favor of the Russian Federation. It's surprising to me that someone still doesn't understand this... And it's surprising to me that China still doesn't fully understand that Russia is gone," he said.

In his opinion, China is playing someone else's game now. "They have their own thousand-year history, they plan for 10 to 20 years ahead, they see completely different life cycles, and now they are starting to exchange their reputation and their history, as well as the fundamental technology markets of Europe and the United States for a country that will definitely not exist in its current form tomorrow and neither will it have any influence on global politics. It is not clear to me why China should swap their reputation for this all," Podolyak said....
Ukranews | Shmyhal Tells Details Of New IMF Program For Ukraine
"It concerns funds to finance the budget deficit (if any) and finance recovery, development[,] and reform programs in Ukraine"
by Cat on Tue Feb 28th, 2023 at 05:27:29 PM EST

'Sapere aude'
by Oui (Oui) on Tue Feb 28th, 2023 at 07:02:41 PM EST
The fascist America produces new propaganda narrative beyond the "Wuhan lab leak" theory w/o any shred of new evidence. I quote Dutch excellent virologist Marion Koopmans who refused to buy into the US "science" the origin was not linked to animals. The Rupert Murdoch rag WSJ and false narrative to wage war reporter Michael A. Gordon.

The Context Of The New Anti-China Campaign | MofA |

Mike Gallagher had promised [interview Fox News] strong action:

    To win the new Cold War, we must respond to Chinese aggression with tough policies to strengthen our economy, rebuild our supply chains, speak out for human rights, stand against military aggression, and end the theft of Americans' personal information, intellectual property, and jobs.

    We must recognize that China's "peaceful rise" was pure fiction and finally confront the CCP with the urgency the threat demands. To do that, House Republicans will establish a Select Committee on China in the new Congress.

The committee itself can not do much about the issues and its attempts to go against China will mostly be diverted into deregulating U.S. environmental protection:

    Meanwhile, in 2019, approximately 90% of the world's rare earth metals, alloys, and permanent magnets were produced in China. The Select Committee will expose our dangerous dependence on China and advance policies to build secure sources for critical supply chains, either in the United States or in partnership with like-minded allies.

"Fall from disgrace is not foreseen." 😂

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Wed Mar 1st, 2023 at 09:23:56 AM EST
[ Parent ]
Where are the righteous men of courage in the United States? Lost in the endless bickering between Red and Blue, a new North and South divide ...

What goes with the protection guaranteed under the UN Charter to secure peace with one's neighbouring states? Borders and sovereignty of states, their right to follow cultural differences and choose their own form of government? Are we to return to country borders from writings in history or biblical times hundreds and thousands of years ago through warfare? The ruins of fascism and devastation on the European continent are still fresh on the memory of the older generation. Stop hate, stop all wars. ☮️

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Wed Mar 1st, 2023 at 09:29:30 AM EST
[ Parent ]
EU dependency on China raw materials: Preparing for worst-case scenario, 27 Feb 2023
..."We cannot change the geology in Europe. So there might be some raw materials where there is potential [nope] to actually ensure that we have a stronger domestic supply of with primary raw materials," Mark Mistry, senior public policy manager at the Nickel Institute, emphasised....
so here it comes.
For Julia Poliscanova, Senior Director at the NGO Transport and Environment (T&E), the EU should thus especially focus on the refinement and further processing of critical raw materials.
"value chain" arbitrage by guns and money. Not the worst, but the same "case" time immemorial.
by Cat on Wed Mar 1st, 2023 at 12:42:21 PM EST
[ Parent ]
G20 (1999 NGO) FR, DE, IT, ES, JP, UK, US, EU-CO, EU-EC, AU, CA; RU, CN,  AR, BR, IN, ID, KR, MX, SA, ZA, TR
BRICS (2009 FTA): CN, RU, BR, IN, ZA; AR*, DZ*, EG*, ID*, IR*, CM*, ML*, SN*, TH*, UZ*, FJ*, ET*, KZ*
IAEA BoG (2021-2022): AR, AU, AT, BR,BI, CA, CN, CO, CZ, EG, FI, FR, DE, GT, IN, IE, JP, KR, LY, MY, MX, NZ, PK, PE, PL, RU, SG, SI, ZA, ES, CH, AE, UK, US, VN

Al Jazeera | South Africa's Ramaphosa declares 'state of disaster' on power, 10 Feb
"The country's power utility Eskom is unable to produce adequate power due to frequent breakdowns at its ageing coal-fired power stations and years of corruption."
CNN | South Africa risks backlash for Russian naval exercises, but its history with Moscow runs deep, 19 Feb
"It is participating in a 10-day naval exercise in the Indian Ocean alongside South African and Chinese warships, war games that South Africa says have long been planned."
Atlantic Council | What we learned from the Russia-China-South Africa military drills, 28 Feb
"At the very least, it signals that South Africa is not concerned with Ukraine and not interested in towing the Western line."

gov.za | Treasury on listing of South Africa by the Financial Action Task Force, 24 Feb

...The Minister of Finance, Mr Enoch Godongwana has informed the FATF President, Mr Raja Kumar [SG], that the South African Cabinet has considered the Action Plan and committed to  actively work with the FATF and ESAAMLG to swiftly and effectively address all outstanding deficiencies and strengthen the effectiveness of its AML/CFT regime. Since the publication  of its MER in October 2021, the South African Government has already demonstrated its commitment to implementing the recommended actions, including the speedy enactment of  two major pieces of legislation (which in turn amended six Acts of Parliament) - the General Laws (Anti-Money Laundering and the Combating the Financing of Terrorism) Amendment Act and the Protection of Constitutional Democracy Against Terrorism and Related Activities Amendment Act - in order to address some of the technical deficiencies identified in the Mutual Evaluation Report....
thehindu | FATF puts South Africa, Nigeria on 'grey list', 25 Feb
..."When the FATF places a jurisdiction under increased monitoring, it means the country has committed to resolve swiftly the identified strategic deficiencies within agreed timeframes and is subject to increased monitoring. This list is often externally referred to as the `grey list', FATF said in a statement issued after its meeting in Paris.
The FATF listed eight areas that South Africa still needed to work on in order to have its grey listing removed. These include South African authorities applying effective, proportionate, and effective sanctions for noncompliance; showing a sustained increase in investigations and prosecutions of serious and complex money laundering; enhancing identification, seizure and confiscation of proceeds of crimes; and ensuring the effective implementation of targeted financial sanctions.....
STEP | FATF places South Africa under increased AML monitoring regime, 27 Feb
... The FATF decision will subject South Africans with bank accounts overseas to enhanced due-diligence, says Johannesburg-based law firm ENSAfrica. The firm also notes that it 'may become more onerous for other South Africans to open offshore bank accounts or invest offshore'.
Analysts said the grey listing would affect foreign direct investment in South Africa and also make it more difficult for embattled state-owned entities such as national electricity supplier Eskom and public transport network Transnet to borrow funds abroad.

South Africa is the second G20 economy after Turkey to have been added to the FATF grey-list. Iran, North Korea[,] and Myanmar are blacklisted.

archived Stalker 2 is on the move, the Eskom put, The Code of Conduct for Business Taxation raft

History of the FATF
FATF Statement on the Russian Federation

by Cat on Wed Mar 1st, 2023 at 04:24:34 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Foreign Ministry Spokesperson Mao Ning's Regular Press Conference on March 1, 2023
Bloomberg: I'm just wondering, MOFA repeatedly says that China is for promoting peace and we did see a 12-point document that laid out ideas. Has China carried out any actions to promote peace as yet that you'd like to tell us about? 
Mao Ning: China's Position on the Political Settlement of the Ukraine Crisis [24.02.23] fully and systematically laid out China's position on the Ukraine issue. It reflects the world's shared hope to end the crisis and let peace prevail at an early date, and China's sincerity in promoting talks for peace. We are ready to work with the rest of the world to continue to play a constructive role in working for a political settlement of the crisis.
Follow-up: Right, I get that. But the question is, has China actually done anything to promote peace? 
Mao Ning: We have been in communication with all parties and actively promoting talks for peace.
fmprc, The Global Security Initiative Concept Paper, 21 Feb
fmprc, US Hegemony and Its Perils, 20 Feb
by Cat on Wed Mar 1st, 2023 at 09:34:39 PM EST
[ Parent ]

Chinese FM Qin Gang briefs media on foreign policy, external relations, run time 02:42:05, autronslate enabled + Mandarin:English VO translation

Q&A begins @00:32:21,

by Cat on Tue Mar 7th, 2023 at 11:13:22 PM EST
[ Parent ]
euractiv | reality testing
German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said Saturday on a visit to India that he did not believe that Modi's government "is under any illusions that this is an offensive war started by Russia in order to acquire a part of its neighbour's territory."
by Cat on Thu Mar 2nd, 2023 at 01:13:32 AM EST
[ Parent ]
The nuance here is that Modi presumably thinks it's just fine to take chunks out of your neighbour's territory.

Sadly for him, Pakistan has nuclear weapons too.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Thu Mar 2nd, 2023 at 02:31:36 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Most of the non-western war seems to see the war as a conflict between Russia and US/Nato, that they don't benefit from getting involved in.

I understand that India is involved in trading Russian oil products between Russia and EU, so we are importing "Indian" oil now. I haven't been able to find volumes from India, just that "others" has increased a lot as trading partners in oil products during 2022 (figure 5, others goes from 16.4% in 2021 to 24.0% in the last quarter of 2022, almost matching the decline in Russian oil products).

Being neutral in a conflict and being able to trade with both sides (that nominally limits trade between each other), is very profitable.

I think the most remarkable thing is the decline is US power. Compared to when US declared that countries were either with them or against them in the terror wars, there is not much opposition in Europe, but outside Europe, fewer are backing US now.

by fjallstrom on Fri Mar 3rd, 2023 at 11:39:29 AM EST
[ Parent ]
I think the most remarkable thing is the decline is US power.

Well, exactly. Fundamentally this is a war in Europe, and it's Europe's problem. This will very likely be the approach of an incoming Republican administration in the US, in 2025.

So far, Europe's response has been to transfer arms to Ukraine, AND to massively increase military spending. France's military has been extensively hollowed out over the past three decades (roughly), with a widespread concensus to cash in the "peace dividend". But now, rearmament is also subject to widespread concencus.

Why is that?

There is war in Europe. There is at least one nation which believes it can modify boundaries unilaterally.  Putin's claimed casus belli, incredibly, is that the countries on Russia's western border are militarized, rather than defenceless as he would wish.

It is rightly acknowledged that people of faith have no monopoly of virtue - Queen Elizabeth II

by eurogreen on Tue Mar 7th, 2023 at 12:49:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]
Vinay Lal, History of British India [Lec 02]
What is it you suppose that made it possible for the British tor rule India for so long?
Indian Punchline | A reality check for Modi Govt's G20 ambitions, 2 Mar
by Cat on Thu Mar 2nd, 2023 at 09:58:51 PM EST
[ Parent ]
I guess it's as good a start as any. There's of course a long list of reasons why it wouldn't work:

Zelensky couldn't negotiate a peace against the ultranats and the wishes of Washington when he had an overwhelming mandate so it seems not very likely that he could do so now that public sentiment has been somewhat inflamed. Also the war that is destroying the country is also the only thing that brings in money for the political connected now.

The Kremlin really didn't want to call a mobilization, but now that they have I would expect there's more political pressure to get some kind of win out of it. Also in their earlier strategy of making the offer worse and worse until Kiev came to the table they annexed regions they don't hold anymore. Awkward for peace negotiations. And then we have all old euros opportunistically coming out of the woodwork to loudly proclaim that the old peace plan was a ruse to facilitate rearmament.

Washington(Blinken) openly stated that they want to use the anti Russia coalition against China, so obviously they would not accept a Chinese political role that defuses that coalition and in the end it's hard to envision any end to the conflict, absent total Russian victory, if the US doesn't want it to end.

by generic on Tue Mar 7th, 2023 at 08:05:10 PM EST
"Biden gets confused when asked what he thinks about Iran and Saudi Arabia restoring diplomatic relations, saying "better the relations between Israel and Arab neighbors, the better for everyone."

⚡️🇦🇪 🇮🇱 The UAE has frozen all security/military deals with Israel 🇮🇱, turmoil Netanyahu's cabinet

Saudi Arabia's refusal to grant visas to Israeli delegation taking part in UN tourism conference

Dream on Joe ... Free Palestine 🇵🇸

Israeli press review: Political blame-game over Saudi-Iranian agreement

'Sapere aude'

by Oui (Oui) on Tue Mar 14th, 2023 at 02:03:25 AM EST
ecns.cn | Russia and China: A Future-Bound Partnership, 19 Mar
Amidst the "waves and winds" that sweep the planet, we closely cooperate in international affairs and effectively coordinate our foreign policy positions, counter common threats, and respond to current challenges, standing shoulder to shoulder as a "rock amid a fast flowing stream." We actively promote democratic multilateral structures such as the SCO and BRICS, which become more and more authoritative and influential and attract new partners and friends. The work aimed at coordinating the development of the Eurasian Economic Union with the One Belt, One Road Initiative also goes in this vein.

Our countries, together with like-minded actors, have consistently advocated the shaping of a more just multipolar world order based on international law rather than certain "rules" serving the needs of the "golden billion." Russia and China have consistently worked to create an equitable, open and inclusive regional and global security system that is not directed against third countries. In this regard, we note the constructive role of China's Global Security Initiative, which is in line with the Russian approaches in this area.

ria.ru | "Russia and China are a partnership looking to the future." Article by Putin

people.cn | Full text of Xi's signed article on Russian media, 20 Mar

-- Our two sides have had close coordination on the international stage and fulfilled our responsibilities as major countries. China and Russia are firmly committed to safeguarding the UN-centered international system, the international order underpinned by international law, and the basic norms of international relations based on the purposes and principles of the UN Charter. We have stayed in close communication and coordination in the UN, the Shanghai Cooperation Organization, BRICS, the G20 and other multilateral mechanisms, and worked together for a multi-polar world and greater democracy in international relations. We have been active in practicing true multilateralism, promoting the common values of humanity, and championing the building of a new type of international relations and a community with a shared future for mankind.

Looking back on the extraordinary journey of China-Russia relations over the past 70 years and more, we feel strongly that our relationship has not reached easily where it is today, and that our friendship is growing steadily and must be cherished by us all. China and Russia have found a right path of state-to-state interactions. This is essential for the relationship to stand the test of changing international circumstances, a lesson borne out by both history and reality.

fmprc | Forging Ahead to Open a New Chapter of China-Russia Friendship, Cooperation and Common Development
by Cat on Mon Mar 20th, 2023 at 09:54:06 PM EST
by Cat on Wed Mar 22nd, 2023 at 11:53:58 AM EST
[ Parent ]
So yeah. RT reported this morning Mikhail Podoliak's preparations, broadcast yesterday by "Ukrainian national TV", for a meeting between Xi and Zelensk*.
...On Tuesday, Ukrainian Deputy Prime Minister Irina Vereshchuk stated that, while the sides "have things to say to each other," it was still unclear whether the negotiations would take place "for sure."...
Naturally, I was skeptical.

(UATV a/k/a Ukrinform is the only *-Eng broadcaster, funded in part or whole by UA government, d/b/a wiTV local language, according to Google. In review w/e 25 March, UATV/Ukrinform or Ukranews does not list any such program for its international audience. Maybe outlaw Strana.ua mentioned?)

Here is the last Podoliak UATV interview returned by YouTube, KEY: March 23, 2023. Here is Podoliak's considered opinion from 28 Feb, after publication of the FMPRC position paper and Zelensk* press conference.  

In proceeding weeks, EU and US diplomats mightily vacillated between denouncing the COMMUNIST PARTY's ambiguous position and summoning COMMUNIST PARTY to arbitrate a "peace plan" for UA and the RF, while NATO allies amass materiel—tanks, jets, conventional and DU ammunition—for the UA's imminent counter-offensives at Bakhmut and Crimea. For example, here is Armenian broadcaster 1lurer's circular reference to an WSJ promo, "Kyiv is negotiating with Beijing on issue of possible contacts between Zelensk* and Xi Jinping: Podolyak" (17.03.23), contradicting US broadcaster ABC News interdiction, "China's Xi to meet with Putin in Moscow Monday in show of support" (19.03.23).

...China in recent weeks has mounted a diplomatic offensive seeking to present itself as a potential peacemaker. Last month, China published a so-called "peace proposal" and after meeting Putin, Xi is reportedly expected to speak with Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensk* for the first time by video call [?!]...."The 12-point 'plan' does not present any actual solutions. In fact, it merely reiterates Beijing's standard talking points on the war in Ukraine which are closely linked to its Russia-friendly perspective and its own strategic interests," Alicja Bachulsk, a policy fellow at the European Council on Foreign Relations wrote last month....

RT's article notes:

Xi's plans to speak with Zelensk* after his three-day state visit to Moscow and talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin were first reported by the Wall Street Journal last week [13.03.23].
China's Xi Plans to Speak With Zelensk* for First Time Since Ukraine War Broke Out: "Chinese leader Xi Jinping plans to speak with Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensk* for the first time since the start of the Ukraine war, likely after he visits Moscow next week to meet with Russian President Vladimir Putin, according to people familiar with the matter...."
The possibility of direct talks between Xi and Zelensk*, which could become the first since the Ukraine conflict broke out in February 2022, was also hailed by the US. Last week, National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan [and John Kirby, 19.03.23] said that Washington had been encouraging the Chinese leader to reach out to Kiev, explaining that he "himself should hear directly the Ukrainian perspective and not just the Russian perspective" on the ongoing hostilities.

Meanwhile, last month, when asked about potential talks between Xi and Zelensk*, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Wang Wenbin noted that Beijing "has maintained smooth communication with all relevant parties, including Ukraine," while reiterating China's commitment to a peaceful settlement of the crisis.

So. Absent fluency in psycho, how did I finally find an "outlet" capable of unraveling charges of PUTIN "disinformation" from a web of deceit daily spun by NATO's free press censors? Perseverance.
yahoo! Ukrayinska Pravda | Ukrainian President's Office explains what prevents Zelenskyy and Xi from negotiaitng [sic], 23 Mar
A conversation between Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy and Chinese leader Xi Jinping is being planned, but there are some difficulties in organising it due to China's position.

Source: Mykhailo Podoliak, the advisor to the Head of the Office of the President, on air during the national joint 24/7 newscast, reported by Interfax-Ukraine

Quote: "There are plans [for the conversation - ed.]. It is being organised by both the President's Office and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs - Yermak and Kuleba. We proactively propose this because there is practically no one else, apart from President Zelenskyy, to explain the consequences of the wrong ending to the war, as the president is quite clear about the emphasis he places among our partners, including neutral countries."

Details: At the same time, Podoliak notes that there are certain difficulties in organising the talks between the two leaders due to China's lack of a clear position on the extent of its involvement in the settlement of military issues between Ukraine and Russia.
Background: Earlier, the media learned from sources that a telephone conversation between Zelenskyy and Xi was planned.

Zelenskyy said that Ukraine invited China to contribute to implementing of Ukraine's Peace Formula and that no specific arrangements have been made for his phone call with Xi Jinping.

alrighty then. What else are you missing? Where in the old world order national security "conversation" are the joint communiques and the list of state agreements signed by Putin and Xi 20 Mar 2023?
by Cat on Fri Mar 24th, 2023 at 04:52:51 PM EST
Zelensk*: Ukraine invites China to join Ukrainian peace formula, 21 Mar
Ukraine conveyed the Ukrainian peace formula to China publicly and through diplomatic channels and waits for a dialogue.
Zelensk* five points of peace formula 13 Sep 2022
10-point peace plan to G20 leaders, Nov 2022
"We conveyed our peace formula and an invitation to participate in this formula to China both publicly and through diplomatic channels. We invite China to dialogue, we wait for an answer," President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelensk* said at a joint press conference with Prime Minister of Japan Fumio Kishida, an Ukrinform correspondent reports.
Germany urges China to start talking to Kyiv, 21 Mar
This was stated by the German government spokesman, Steffen Hebestreit, at a briefing on Wednesday, an Ukrinform correspondent reports.
Germany and its partners continue to adhere to the position that was expressed from the very start: not to talk about Ukraine without Ukraine, not to decide its fate behind its back. "Ukrainians themselves must decide how this conflict can be settled and ended. Germany, for its part, will support Ukraine for as long as necessary: politically, financially, humanitarianly, and with weapons," the spokesman said.

The German Ambassador to Ukraine, Anka Feldhusen, said the same day in Kyiv that Berlin expects China to finally admit that what is happening is not a "conflict" but an actual ["undeclared"?] war[,] that Russia is committing violence against Ukrainians and also to demand, together with other states, that Russia withdraws troops from the territory of Ukraine.

Global South has to understand why Russia mustn't be supported - Morawiecki, 22 Mar
Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said this during a joint statement to the media with Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida in Warsaw on Wednesday, Ukrinform's own correspondent reports.

The head of the Polish government noted that Poland and Japan border Russia on two opposite sides, but both perfectly understand "the threat posed by < wipes tears> Russian imperialism to world peace and international order."
"The Prime Minister of Japan and I talked a lot of how to show Russia's policy to the countries around the world, to the Global South, so that there is no support for Russia," the Polish prime minister emphasized....

by Cat on Fri Mar 24th, 2023 at 11:56:09 PM EST
[ Parent ]

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